Red Pyramid Thing Reviews Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
    Cynical Cook Pyramid Head's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Missouri, USA
    Posts
    297
    Otaku Lvl
    5
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 24 Times in 19 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Red Pyramid Thing Reviews Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

    Well I knew this would come eventually. I put off reviewing Skyrim in a supplemental Friday review in favor of…
    …well actually I didn’t post my scheduled review until Saturday when normally I try to upload in the middle of the week, so obviously last week wasn’t kind to me. But the thing is, Skyrim leaves me in a difficult position. Not because it’s bad, but because it’s mediocre. This isn’t like Final Fantasy X where the game sucks horribly and it’s very easy to point out the flaws while most of the people who come to it’s defense are quite clearly in denial, there are valid points in Skyrim’s favor to make.

    But enough putting it off…

    Skyrim is the fifth title in the Elder Scrolls series and is developed by Bethesda who also developed Oblivion and Fallout 3, a subpar action RPG and one of the 360s best titles respectively. The big issue with Oblivion, Skyrim’s predecessor, is that it was actually a step below Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, which I found out some people hold up right alongside Deus Ex and System Shock as being one of the great action RPGs PCs had to offer during the transition from the fifth to the sixth console generation. But I say, Oblivions’ downgrades were to be expected. If there’s one thing that sets console and PC games apart, it’s complexity. Even Deus Ex: Human Revolution was a step below Deus Ex which came out over ten years ago.

    But regardless, Skyrim’s task was high. It had to bring the Elder Scrolls series back to it’s former glory. Did it succeed?
    NO! IT DIDN’T SUCCEED! A lot of people claim otherwise, but the big problem is that while this game did have noteworthy innovations, it failed to fix a few of Oblivion’s problems. But I’ll get to that later.

    The Elder Scrolls series tends to name it’s titles after the region that the game takes place in. Morrowind took place in Morrowind, Oblivion revolved around someone opening portals to Oblivion, the mythologies version of the underworld, and Skyrim takes place in Skyrim, home of the Nords, a human race that seems to combine all the ancient European warring tribes into one.
    Like Oblivion, the game starts off with you in custody and about to be murdered. While on a prison transport you find out a little about a war going on in Skyrim, after choosing your race and placing your head on the chopping block, a mother****ing dragon pops up out of nowhere and attacks the guards, giving you an opportunity to escape.
    By progressing through the story missions, you later find out that the player character, regardless of race chosen and how many items stolen, is Dragonborn. What does that mean? Well it means your character has a natural affinity for dragon language and can absorb the souls of dead dragons, this being the only way to kill them. The dragons language is actually the source of their power, them breathing fire is actually them cursing you out in dragons tongue. Presumably stating the seven words you can never say in the ancient dragon tongue will lead to you breathing a poison that causes enemies to laugh themselves to death.

    The story quests revolve around finding out who is responsible for dragons coming back to Skyrim despite everyone thinking they went extinct over 1000 years ago, learning more of your nature as a Dragonborn and learning new words of power in the dragon tongue to increase your variety of abilities. That said, being an RPG game I only rented for five days, I actually didn’t get that far in the story campaign. Not unlike Fallout 3, there are a lot of side quests which take up more of your gameplay than the actual story quest. While I didn’t get far enough to grade the story as a whole, I can tell you that NPC animations and voice acting are still on the Oblivion grade, or in other words a big step down from Fallout 3. There are some towns where you’ll hear at least five NPCs with the same voice, even named NPCs who offer quests and supplies.

    That said, Skyrim is a little more welcoming than the Capital Wasteland. The environments often look very nice, but being of Scottish decent it probably is just something that reminds me of home. Mountain ranges, lush forests, and all of them with plenty of monsters that are out to kill you. I lost track of the number of times I was exploring the forest, looking up landmarks to tab for the quick travel system, only to get ambushed by a bear.
    Gameplay Pro Tip: Save often when traveling. Random boss encounters happen all the ****ing time.

    One of the biggest gripes I have about Skyrim is a very uneven difficulty curve. I started my game off picking a Khajit female as my character. Khajit are basically cat people.

    Not quite.

    There we go. I picked this build because I guessed, and was correct in guessing, that it would give me a stealth bonus. Skyrim switches from a class system to a compound Fallout 3/Contact level up system where specific abilities level up as you use them. For example, stealth levels up when you remain close to enemies undetected and you get a lot of stealth experience for performing a sneak attack, archery levels up when you shoot something, light armor levels up when the bow physics **** you up the ***, your shot arcs over an enemies head, your position is given away, and you get a broadsword upside the head, destruction magic levels up while you desperately backtrack while throwing fire at your enemies trying to lure them into a trap you placed earlier…

    Realizing early on that the game was not going to let me simply be an archery specialist and live with the extremely, EXTREMELY stupid health system where you have a very low amount of regenerating health as opposed to a large life bar that you have to refill every time stealth fails, I decided to also give my character some points in Destruction magic. Every time you level up, you get a point to assign into perks, with perks being available in specific schools and more powerful ones being available as you level up that item, you get points for leveling up your character as you level up your abilities, so don’t be surprised if you suddenly level up trading in your old bow and some dragon scales at the local shop.
    But how does that measure into an unwelcoming curve? Well, early on in the game I realized shields were getting me nowhere and switched to using a plasmids and a wrench.
    …sorry, Incinerate! and pistol whi-- FLAME SPELLS AND A DAGGER! For better or worse, the mechanics actually are similar to BioShock 2 where small weapons and spells take up one hand. You can also duel wield plasmids-- SPELLS and swords, though I only ever kept a dagger ready because as a Condemned veteran, I value speed over raw power, especially since this game is several thousand steps below Condemned in it’s melee system and the physics of it all are pretty basic.

    The big problem was that initially I had to autosave between each encounter, though I won’t say it didn’t have it’s fun moments. The biggest problem is that not only are the melee physics several steps below Condemned, the bow physics are several steps below Twilight Princess or Shadow of the Colossus. Trying to predict the way my bow would arc was damn near impossible, and even when drawing the string all the way back the range that the arrows would fly was pathetic, even after I was midway through the game and had access to Dwarven weaponry. This wasn’t a problem when I gave up on going for headshots and simply aimed at the enemies balls, the arrow normally embedding itself in their chest when I targeted that, but in close range, even when aiming at the center of the enemies mass, shots had this tendency to arc right over the enemies head.
    Which is where traps came in. The game divides it’s magic disciplines into three different categories: flame, frost, and shock. Now you see where the constant BioShock jokes are coming from when the three primary offensive Plasmids are Electro-Bolt, Incinerate, and Freeze? One spell class involves placing magical land mines that don’t react to me but that do tremendous damage to enemies.
    But then I hit level 12, unlocked the Augmented Flame perk which increased the amount of damage my fire magic did and the Eagle Eye perk which let me zoom in with my bow and scout much more effectively. Not only that, but perks in the stealth school which greatly boosted the amount of damage the stealth attacks did. It got to the point where I could drain half a giant’s health using an enchanted bow with a poisoned arrow and then finish it off by roasting it with my flame spells while it was trying to navigate the rough terrain. Even dragons went down after only eating five or six arrows, and half the time I encountered a dragon, it left itself wide open targeting other monsters. I remember at one point a dragon attacked a village called Woodmill or something like that and actually died while it was targeting chickens.

    In fact there’s a general AI problem, and this is where my remark about Oblivion comes in. One of the major steps up of Fallout 3 over Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion was immersion. Oblivion only had a voice cast of about five, the actors phoned it in and never tried to speak with any vocal range, facial animation was a joke, and half the time friendly soldier NPCs would endlessly run into walls trying to target blameless wildlife that they couldn’t reach. Skyrim didn’t fix this problem, if anything it gets worse because NPCs don’t always stop when you talk to them, so sometimes you have to restart quest starting conversations because the NPC walked right out of a door while you were talking to them.

    The rest of what I have to say is bottomless nits to pick, but this review is long enough. While I’ll admit I liked the new leveling system and liked that you could make your own weapons and potions, the physics engine was so poorly implemented that half of my big monster kills went flying right into the sky after eating the finishing arrow. While the game was challenging, even frustrating, for the first ten hours once you get a few mid level combat perks the game becomes so easy that it gives me the sneaky suspicion it doesn’t adjust enemy level to your level. There are countless graphical glitches, countless moments of NPCs getting lost on the terrain when their movement isn’t scripted, and of course health regenerates and sometimes the camera cuts away to show an enemy being finished off when you’re fighting in melee range, and enemies also have this ability to do finishing animations. While I will admit that it has it’s fun moments, the fact that there are better games out in the same genre for a third of the asking price makes me think “Give it a miss, buy Fallout 3: Game of the Year edition if you haven’t already, or if you have a PC, buy the Morrowind Game of the Year edition.”
    Oh, and don’t try to decapitate enemies and throw their heads off cliffs. This game doesn’t have Fallout’s physics engine.


    And for the record, the Feral Ghouls are a much better enemy than the Elder Scrolls zombies
    --Archmage Pyramid Head of Winterhold


    Next Review: Saint’s Row: The Third
    The fear of blood tends to create fear for the flesh

  2. #2
    Otaku-in-Training
    Reizero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    A2
    Posts
    378
    Otaku Lvl
    6
    Thanks
    20
    Thanked 23 Times in 18 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyramid Head View Post
    But regardless, Skyrim’s task was high. It had to bring the Elder Scrolls series back to it’s former glory. Did it succeed?
    NO! IT DIDN’T SUCCEED! A lot of people claim otherwise, but the big problem is that while this game did have noteworthy innovations, it failed to fix a few of Oblivion’s problems. But I’ll get to that later.
    alskdfjldskajl skyrim did achieve the former glory of the elder scrolls series and even made it more addicting and fun. i would rate it an 8/10. the only thing that stops it from being a 10 is because it's full of glitches (which are hilarious btw) but there are updates coming soon and because of the repeating NPC voices, but that is quite undertstandable considering how big the game is already. otherwise, it will probably be nominated for game of the year.

  3. #3
    Cynical Cook Pyramid Head's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Missouri, USA
    Posts
    297
    Otaku Lvl
    5
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 24 Times in 19 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Reizero View Post
    alskdfjldskajl skyrim did achieve the former glory of the elder scrolls series and even made it more addicting and fun. i would rate it an 8/10. the only thing that stops it from being a 10 is because it's full of glitches (which are hilarious btw) but there are updates coming soon and because of the repeating NPC voices, but that is quite undertstandable considering how big the game is already. otherwise, it will probably be nominated for game of the year.

    Don't create excuses for Bethesda. If they're charging you over $50 US, they should do their ****ing job. I didn't let Capcom get away with such an uneven difficulty curve in Dead Rising, i'm not going to let them get away with it here when they also fail in engine implementation, voice coaching, and when the only major innovation is ripping off the Fallout series. We're talking a major gaming industry, not independents. You shouldn't let them get away with mistakes they have made repeatedly with their last several releases. Skyrim was like Brink, it got acclaim that it didn't deserve because it's genre is solid, but if Bethesda had actually taken the time to let the developers finish debugging and play testing it wouldn't have had so many ****ing problems.
    The fear of blood tends to create fear for the flesh

  4. #4
    Otaku-in-Training
    Reizero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    A2
    Posts
    378
    Otaku Lvl
    6
    Thanks
    20
    Thanked 23 Times in 18 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyramid Head View Post
    Don't create excuses for Bethesda. If they're charging you over $50 US, they should do their ****ing job. I didn't let Capcom get away with such an uneven difficulty curve in Dead Rising, i'm not going to let them get away with it here when they also fail in engine implementation, voice coaching, and when the only major innovation is ripping off the Fallout series. We're talking a major gaming industry, not independents. You shouldn't let them get away with mistakes they have made repeatedly with their last several releases. Skyrim was like Brink, it got acclaim that it didn't deserve because it's genre is solid, but if Bethesda had actually taken the time to let the developers finish debugging and play testing it wouldn't have had so many ****ing problems.
    If Bethesda let the developers finish debugging the game, it wouldn't have been released until a year later and we would be pissed. Most people would rather deal with the glitches as long as they can play the game, and further updates are coming to fix the problems so it's not really a big deal in terms of interfering with the gameplay. Most of the glitches are really funny anyway and add to the humor of the game. Although the voice cast may be minimal, they fit the atmosphere of the game well. It would be nice for the game to have more lines of dialogue since phrases like: "I used to be an adventurer like you... until I took an arrow in the knee" are far too common to enjoy anymore. If you're complaining about Bethesda ripping off Fallout, that is incorrect; The first game released by Bethesda was in 1994 while Fallout was released three years later in 1997. As for the charge of $60 US dollars, that's the average price for a newly released game so it's fairly reasonable. It will probably drop down to $50 or $40 in a year or so if anyone is willing to wait that long. Some people may be selling it online for even less.

  5. #5
    Cynical Cook Pyramid Head's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Missouri, USA
    Posts
    297
    Otaku Lvl
    5
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 24 Times in 19 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Reizero View Post
    If Bethesda let the developers finish debugging the game, it wouldn't have been released until a year later and we would be pissed. Most people would rather deal with the glitches as long as they can play the game, and further updates are coming to fix the problems so it's not really a big deal in terms of interfering with the gameplay. Most of the glitches are really funny anyway and add to the humor of the game. Although the voice cast may be minimal, they fit the atmosphere of the game well. It would be nice for the game to have more lines of dialogue since phrases like: "I used to be an adventurer like you... until I took an arrow in the knee" are far too common to enjoy anymore. If you're complaining about Bethesda ripping off Fallout, that is incorrect; The first game released by Bethesda was in 1994 while Fallout was released three years later in 1997. As for the charge of $60 US dollars, that's the average price for a newly released game so it's fairly reasonable. It will probably drop down to $50 or $40 in a year or so if anyone is willing to wait that long. Some people may be selling it online for even less.
    1986. Bethesda's first title was Gridiron in 1986. The Elder Scrolls, however, has always been an item Bethesda owned, releasing Arena in 1994 and Daggerfall in 96. Bethesda didn't get their hands on Fallout until Fallout 3, most Fallout titles prior to that were actually RPGs developed by Black Isle and published by Interplay. Bethesda was the group that translated the SPECIAL based RPG into an action RPG, though it showed. Fallout 3 also had some big glitch problems until Bethesda's DLC packs, but it was given a pass because of the great story.

    Also, playtesting and debugging isn't that long and arduous of a process. Portal 2 was almost glitch free after four years in development with a team and resources less than half of what Skyrim had. Even just a few more months in development would help the studio immensely, it may even have gone so far as to save Fallout: New Vegas. Bethesda has the time and resources, if they simply posted later release dates the fans won't care so long as there aren't delays. Bethesda really needs to borrow a page from Valve and learn to get in touch with their fanbase and focus on ironing out bugs and making a great and immersive experience as opposed to just padding their wallets.
    But maybe i'm being too optimistic. Outside Fallout 3 and Skyrim, i cannot think of a single good or even decent game put out by Bethesda since 2002's Morrowind. Maybe the problem isn't so much Bethesda's methods but the wrong studio publishing the wrong title. Maybe Eidos should be developing the Elder Scrolls titles.

    Also another detail i could bring up is that Skyrim's physics and environment engine were dated, but then i'd just be nitpicking. Contrary to what i say, it's not that bad of a game, it's just not worth $60 with the poor story, physics, and voice cast. Besides, i quit caring after watching Puella Magi Madoka Magica and discovering Record of Agarest War. With the exception of Crysis 2 which i'm actively working on, i'm done with shooters for the time being.
    The fear of blood tends to create fear for the flesh

  6. #6
    :::Colorless:::
    darkpoetry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    riding the Zephyer
    Posts
    690
    Upload
    38 Video(s)
    Otaku Lvl
    6
    Thanks
    24
    Thanked 58 Times in 43 Posts
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    The difficulty curve can be easily adjusted in the settings. Simple as that.

    If you failed at the sneak game style, you were playing it wrong. Many people, including myself, play that style on master difficulty and are enjoying it. I find the opposite complaint more often. Which is that if you shoot someone in the head and you sneak away the NPC will say "Must have been my imagination". In my opinion, Bethesda did a good job of balancing the sneak difficulty between unfairly easy and unrealistic AI.

    The arrow physics is actually pretty accurate if shooting parallel to the ground. There is a slight arc but I would rather have that. I think the problem you were having is when you move right after releasing. The arrow will only go straight if you hold still until the full release of the arrow. If moving even slightly during the release, the arrow will diverge from the target.
    There are some issues when shooting with an object right in front of you though.
    Heres some trickshots. Clearly, the arrow physics aren't that crappy.


    Comparing the number of bugs of Skyrim to Portal is illogical to say the least. The only thing portal needed to focus on was the physics engine. After that they pretty much can use the same environmental objects and just mix them up for different levels. The story was linear so there is no need to account for players diverging from the level. All Portal had to do was make sure the player didn't escape the environment. On the other hand, in Skyrim the player can go off tangent in countless ways. The player might try to attack the NPCs, steal quest items from the NPCs, or simply just stop caring mid quest. All of these cases have to be accounted for in every one of their hundreds of quests. A number of quests intertwine with other quests making it even more complicated to deal with all the possible scenarios. Debugging would require a ridiculous amount of gameplay; unlike Portal which just needed to be played through a couple of times and check for holes in the levels.
    I can go on and on about the amount of debugging thats required, from the respawn system, to the skill leveling, to the item creation, to the landscaping, to the combat gameplay, to the item looting, to complex cell loading and memory management, NPCs that roam the map, all of which portal did not have to consider.
    One year of debugging? No, this game will never be bug free simply because of the type of game it is. Thats why professional critics quite fairly forgive the amount of bugs in the game. The complexity of creating a game like Portal to a game like Skyrim is like making a fruit salad is to making a Thanksgiving dinner.
    My complaint about debugging is that Bethesda created more problems with their updates then they fixed. It looks like their senior programmers have already been sent to the next project.

    The AI system is lacking, but not in the town NPCs, more in the combat. You can't really expect the NPCs to completely stop what they are doing to talk to you. I've only had this problem in two cases. 1. When you caught them going through a door, and 2. when in combat. In both situations I would say its far more appropriate for them to keep going rather than stop to talk to you. (Note that they only keep going through the door when they have already executed the door opening action). Besides those two cases I believe every NPC has stopped to talk. Except for the headless horseman.
    Last edited by darkpoetry; 12-10-2011 at 01:34 AM.

  7. #7
    Cynical Cook Pyramid Head's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Missouri, USA
    Posts
    297
    Otaku Lvl
    5
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 24 Times in 19 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by darkpoetry View Post
    The difficulty curve can be easily adjusted in the settings. Simple as that.

    If you failed at the sneak game style, you were playing it wrong. Many people, including myself, play that style on master difficulty and are enjoying it. I find the opposite complaint more often. Which is that if you shoot someone in the head and you sneak away the NPC will say "Must have been my imagination". In my opinion, Bethesda did a good job of balancing the sneak difficulty between unfairly easy and unrealistic AI.

    The arrow physics is actually pretty accurate if shooting parallel to the ground. There is a slight arc but I would rather have that. I think the problem you were having is when you move right after releasing. The arrow will only go straight if you hold still until the full release of the arrow. If moving even slightly during the release, the arrow will diverge from the target.
    There are some issues when shooting with an object right in front of you though.
    Heres some trickshots. Clearly, the arrow physics aren't that crappy.


    Comparing the number of bugs of Skyrim to Portal is illogical to say the least. The only thing portal needed to focus on was the physics engine. After that they pretty much can use the same environmental objects and just mix them up for different levels. The story was linear so there is no need to account for players diverging from the level. All Portal had to do was make sure the player didn't escape the environment. On the other hand, in Skyrim the player can go off tangent in countless ways. The player might try to attack the NPCs, steal quest items from the NPCs, or simply just stop caring mid quest. All of these cases have to be accounted for in every one of their hundreds of quests. A number of quests intertwine with other quests making it even more complicated to deal with all the possible scenarios. Debugging would require a ridiculous amount of gameplay; unlike Portal which just needed to be played through a couple of times and check for holes in the levels.
    I can go on and on about the amount of debugging thats required, from the respawn system, to the skill leveling, to the item creation, to the landscaping, to the combat gameplay, to the item looting, to complex cell loading and memory management, NPCs that roam the map, all of which portal did not have to consider.
    One year of debugging? No, this game will never be bug free simply because of the type of game it is. Thats why professional critics quite fairly forgive the amount of bugs in the game. The complexity of creating a game like Portal to a game like Skyrim is like making a fruit salad is to making a Thanksgiving dinner.
    My complaint about debugging is that Bethesda created more problems with their updates then they fixed. It looks like their senior programmers have already been sent to the next project.

    The AI system is lacking, but not in the town NPCs, more in the combat. You can't really expect the NPCs to completely stop what they are doing to talk to you. I've only had this problem in two cases. 1. When you caught them going through a door, and 2. when in combat. In both situations I would say its far more appropriate for them to keep going rather than stop to talk to you. (Note that they only keep going through the door when they have already executed the door opening action). Besides those two cases I believe every NPC has stopped to talk. Except for the headless horseman.

    You're right about the bottom with NPCs. They shouldn't totally drop what they're doing to converse to the random Khajit that stole half their inventory when they weren't looking, except i still stand by what i say when it came to NPCs who would leave the house when you were talking to them and forced me to restart quest critical conversations.

    I stand by what i say about the bow physics because you were wrong, i was holding completely still and aiming for the chest but it still flew over the head, and when it didn't do that it i received poor indication of where the arrow landed so it was hard to adjust my arc for the next shot. I know it's not realistic, but what they should have done was use the Zelda: Twilight Princess system where bow arcs left a trail visible to the player so you could adjust your aim. If i could snipe with a bow on a Gamecube game i don't see why it isn't possible with a 360 game. Aside from one complaint i didn't bring up, a bad environment pop up rate which would often lead to trees popping up only when i was within 10 yards of them even after i installed the game.

    And yes, the AI is atrocious, and it's worth bringing up because Fallout 3 at least a system where badly wounded enemies would never give up the pursuit and necessitate you finishing them off instead of having them assume you ran away, or that the 10mm lobotomy was part of an overactive imagination. I've seen Skyrim enemies say "It must have been my imagination" when they failed to find me after a sneak shot that left an arrow embedded in their skull.

    Until i was level 15 and instant killing everything but bosses, dragons, and trolls on a high difficulty setting. Like i said, it wasn't so much me not playing on a high setting and tanking too much damage, it was me killing boss enemies before they got in a single hit because they were too busy running into sheer cliffs instead of taking the same path i did and going around to reach my new vantage point.


    Oh, and one more thing, i felt justified in bringing up Portal because it was a team one tenth of Skyrim's size making a great game in roughly the same time frame. The behavior seen with Bethesda is not excusable of a AAA gaming studio. Skyrim was a step above New Vegas and Oblivion i'll admit, but i still expect a lot better with how good Fallout 3 was after they patched it. Why the same studio couldn't meet the standards THEY SET THEMSELVES is one you'll have to explain to me, because frankly Skyrim was handled very lazily with the number of step downs it had from Fallout.
    The fear of blood tends to create fear for the flesh

  8. #8
    :::Colorless:::
    darkpoetry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    riding the Zephyer
    Posts
    690
    Upload
    38 Video(s)
    Otaku Lvl
    6
    Thanks
    24
    Thanked 58 Times in 43 Posts
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyramid Head View Post
    You're right about the bottom with NPCs. They shouldn't totally drop what they're doing to converse to the random Khajit that stole half their inventory when they weren't looking, except i still stand by what i say when it came to NPCs who would leave the house when you were talking to them and forced me to restart quest critical conversations.

    I stand by what i say about the bow physics because you were wrong, i was holding completely still and aiming for the chest but it still flew over the head, and when it didn't do that it i received poor indication of where the arrow landed so it was hard to adjust my arc for the next shot. I know it's not realistic, but what they should have done was use the Zelda: Twilight Princess system where bow arcs left a trail visible to the player so you could adjust your aim. If i could snipe with a bow on a Gamecube game i don't see why it isn't possible with a 360 game. Aside from one complaint i didn't bring up, a bad environment pop up rate which would often lead to trees popping up only when i was within 10 yards of them even after i installed the game.

    And yes, the AI is atrocious, and it's worth bringing up because Fallout 3 at least a system where badly wounded enemies would never give up the pursuit and necessitate you finishing them off instead of having them assume you ran away, or that the 10mm lobotomy was part of an overactive imagination. I've seen Skyrim enemies say "It must have been my imagination" when they failed to find me after a sneak shot that left an arrow embedded in their skull.

    Until i was level 15 and instant killing everything but bosses, dragons, and trolls on a high difficulty setting. Like i said, it wasn't so much me not playing on a high setting and tanking too much damage, it was me killing boss enemies before they got in a single hit because they were too busy running into sheer cliffs instead of taking the same path i did and going around to reach my new vantage point.


    Oh, and one more thing, i felt justified in bringing up Portal because it was a team one tenth of Skyrim's size making a great game in roughly the same time frame. The behavior seen with Bethesda is not excusable of a AAA gaming studio. Skyrim was a step above New Vegas and Oblivion i'll admit, but i still expect a lot better with how good Fallout 3 was after they patched it. Why the same studio couldn't meet the standards THEY SET THEMSELVES is one you'll have to explain to me, because frankly Skyrim was handled very lazily with the number of step downs it had from Fallout.
    I'm honestly having no problems with the bow. If I aim for the body it never flies over the head. Sometimes hits the neck or head, but never over it.
    http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comme...ut_archery_in/
    Read this, top comment. Skyrim bow physics > other game arrow physics
    Also, leaving a trail would get huge out cry from fans. The key goal for Skyrim is immersion over anything else.

    In my opinion, NPCs do a great job of finding a route to you. If the route doesn't exist (you jumped onto a ledge) then they would run away. I go to 3-4 skyrim forums discussing bugs and mods but I've never heard of NPCs running into cliffs and getting stuck there. They sometimes get confused when you jump onto a ledge but they calculate a route within 2-3 seconds max. If you can find other people that are having the same problem it would be more believable.
    I've fought dozens of bosses in my 150+ hour game time but none of them ever got stuck.

  9. #9
    Cynical Cook Pyramid Head's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Missouri, USA
    Posts
    297
    Otaku Lvl
    5
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 24 Times in 19 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by darkpoetry View Post
    I'm honestly having no problems with the bow. If I aim for the body it never flies over the head. Sometimes hits the neck or head, but never over it.
    http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comme...ut_archery_in/
    Read this, top comment. Skyrim bow physics > other game arrow physics
    Also, leaving a trail would get huge out cry from fans. The key goal for Skyrim is immersion over anything else.

    In my opinion, NPCs do a great job of finding a route to you. If the route doesn't exist (you jumped onto a ledge) then they would run away. I go to 3-4 skyrim forums discussing bugs and mods but I've never heard of NPCs running into cliffs and getting stuck there. They sometimes get confused when you jump onto a ledge but they calculate a route within 2-3 seconds max. If you can find other people that are having the same problem it would be more believable.
    I've fought dozens of bosses in my 150+ hour game time but none of them ever got stuck.
    I'm calling BS on the physics claim. The bow range is absolutely pathetic in this game, and some bows seem to have a shorter effective range than the enemy's detection range. And like i said, there is absolutely no indication of where the arrow lands, whenever i try a sniper attack from outside an enemies detection range no matter how i arc the shots, the maximum range i got with even higher end bows was so bad i actually spent a moment thinking arrows disappear because i couldn't believe how short the range was until i saw my arrows embedded in the ground after i had to start a magic showdown with the mammoth i was trying to snipe.

    Also, a detail about what you said. You fought bosses. I'm talking about encounters in the wild where NPCs would run into walls for sometimes as much as thirty seconds while i kept shooting them. And 2-3 seconds isn't that short, i remember using the environment like that only working for around half a second with Fallout 3 Deathclaws before they moved around the rocks i hopped and were right on top of me again. A detail i might not have brought up, i'm holding it to the Fallout 3 standard Bethesda themselves set and have consistently failed to meet with every single release they have made since that game. Even basic details like storytelling seem to have slipped by them after Fallout 3, making me wonder if Fallout 3 was an accident and Bethesda never had the talent i thought they did. Kind of like my impression of George Lucas after seeing the prequel movies.
    The fear of blood tends to create fear for the flesh

  10. #10
    :::Colorless:::
    darkpoetry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    riding the Zephyer
    Posts
    690
    Upload
    38 Video(s)
    Otaku Lvl
    6
    Thanks
    24
    Thanked 58 Times in 43 Posts
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyramid Head View Post
    I'm calling BS on the physics claim. The bow range is absolutely pathetic in this game, and some bows seem to have a shorter effective range than the enemy's detection range. And like i said, there is absolutely no indication of where the arrow lands, whenever i try a sniper attack from outside an enemies detection range no matter how i arc the shots, the maximum range i got with even higher end bows was so bad i actually spent a moment thinking arrows disappear because i couldn't believe how short the range was until i saw my arrows embedded in the ground after i had to start a magic showdown with the mammoth i was trying to snipe.

    Also, a detail about what you said. You fought bosses. I'm talking about encounters in the wild where NPCs would run into walls for sometimes as much as thirty seconds while i kept shooting them. And 2-3 seconds isn't that short, i remember using the environment like that only working for around half a second with Fallout 3 Deathclaws before they moved around the rocks i hopped and were right on top of me again. A detail i might not have brought up, i'm holding it to the Fallout 3 standard Bethesda themselves set and have consistently failed to meet with every single release they have made since that game. Even basic details like storytelling seem to have slipped by them after Fallout 3, making me wonder if Fallout 3 was an accident and Bethesda never had the talent i thought they did. Kind of like my impression of George Lucas after seeing the prequel movies.
    Honestly man, its just you.
    I don't know if your Xbox is bust or its your perception. Either way I've not seeing anyone else with these problems. Quite the opposite, everyone is loving the sneak-with-bow / snipe-with-bow game play.
    As the video showed, the arrows range is ridiculous. He FAST TRAVELED to a different location and the arrow hit. Thats documented proof that these bows have CRAZY range. Again its the opposite of what you claim, these bows probably have too much range. Theres a good number of these long shot videos from different users without using any sort of mods.
    The bows all have the same physics and same range. This is a known fact in the modding community. This is the same with any weapon except for some artifacts. But every craft-able weapon (and bound weapons) have the same characteristics and range within its weapon class.
    So clearly something is wrong with either your system or how you perceived it.
    Same with the 30 second clipping issue. The 2-3 seconds was me giving a rough estimate with a lot of leeway, don't take it as exact values.

    Maybe you should check out if your system is messed up before rating the game.
    Once again, I visit a couple of forums regularly but I've not seen any of the issues you are talking about on the forums or on youtube videos. These symptoms you are describing are unusual to say the least and seem like an isolated case, not a reflection of the game.

  11. #11
    Goshujin-Sama
    avich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,224
    Upload
    1687 Video(s)
    Otaku Lvl
    7
    Thanks
    218
    Thanked 1,658 Times in 107 Posts
    Blog Entries
    15

    Default

    That's really weird, I never also had that issue.

    One of the things that I did which made the game more immersive was not using the quick travel system. When I play, I tend to try to be the character and not just play the game very technically to get the achievements or whatever the goal is.

    I also like its leveling system. Once I mastered my dual wielding one hand skills, I was forced to learn another to improve. I had little problem using bows. I actually prefer it rather than the spoon-feeding click-target-auto-aim style. Even though you have great damage, you still need real life skill to aim properly. I do miss my desired target sometimes but I like to think that the gust of wind moved the trajectory a bit :D

    Also the advantage of playing it at the PC was the mod. I changed the games textures completely and it looks like a totally different game.
    Last edited by avich; 12-13-2011 at 01:59 AM.

    Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.

  12. #12
    Cynical Cook Pyramid Head's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Missouri, USA
    Posts
    297
    Otaku Lvl
    5
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 24 Times in 19 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by avich View Post
    That's really weird, I never also had that issue.

    One of the things that I did which made the game more immersive was not using the quick travel system. When I play, I tend to try to be the character and not just play the game very technically to get the achievements or whatever the goal is.

    I also like its leveling system. Once I mastered my dual wielding one hand skills, I was forced to learn another to improve. I had little problem using bows. I actually prefer it rather than the spoon-feeding click-target-auto-aim style. Even though you have great damage, you still need real life skill to aim properly. I do miss my desired target sometimes but I like to think that the gust of wind moved the trajectory a bit :D

    Also the advantage of playing it at the PC was the mod. I changed the games textures completely and it looks like a totally different game.
    With fan-made mods and patches, the PC version is probably a lot better than my unpatched 360 version. I'm still sticking with my experience encountered when i rented the game on it's release date and never got a patch or update since my 360 doesn't have web connection. I was planning on checking the game out again once they put out an updated market version that comes with the DLC and patches, but for now, i'm simply stating my experience with the game, i encountered more glitches than i could count and a downgraded physics engine. Bethesda just cut too many corners and rushed it out too quickly to earn it a pass from me with how weird the plot and difficulty arcs are.
    The fear of blood tends to create fear for the flesh

  13. #13
    Goshujin-Sama
    avich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,224
    Upload
    1687 Video(s)
    Otaku Lvl
    7
    Thanks
    218
    Thanked 1,658 Times in 107 Posts
    Blog Entries
    15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyramid Head View Post
    With fan-made mods and patches, the PC version is probably a lot better than my unpatched 360 version. I'm still sticking with my experience encountered when i rented the game on it's release date and never got a patch or update since my 360 doesn't have web connection. I was planning on checking the game out again once they put out an updated market version that comes with the DLC and patches, but for now, i'm simply stating my experience with the game, i encountered more glitches than i could count and a downgraded physics engine. Bethesda just cut too many corners and rushed it out too quickly to earn it a pass from me with how weird the plot and difficulty arcs are.
    Yes I can understand that having to play it on console. I heard there are some loading time sometimes on the game. And you have not patched you game so that would also give you trouble.

    They should have including the Horse Whistle mod and arrow crafting mod by default on their release :D

    Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •