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  1. #1
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    Default Are "Moe" Shows the Cancer of the Anime Industry?

    I realize this topic has been practically discussed to death, but I always enjoy hearing new opinions on a pervasive issue.

    So one of the biggest complaints about anime is that it has too many shows simply involving cute girls doing cute things. And the fact of the matter is that there are indeed a ton of shows that "pander" to otaku. Yet these shows also fuel the anime industry with lots of merchandise.

    If you had some say in what shows are produced, would you like to see more cute girls or more anime originals that may or may not be any good?


    Last edited by solidoxygen; 07-03-2012 at 05:33 PM.
    >streaming

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    See this is where things that are doing good in merchandise fail, because they try to please everyone and it doesn't work, it's a reason why the cute girls sells is because their are way more boys then girls that watch anime it's that simple so don't change nothing that got you where you are in the first place.

    P.S That doesn't mean that the anime industry can't add things for girls that would be great, so as long as they don't change the cuteness LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fr3e1Up View Post
    See this is where things that are doing good in merchandise fail, because they try to please everyone and it doesn't work, it's a reason why the cute girls sells is because their are way more boys then girls that watch anime it's that simple so don't change nothing that got you where you are in the first place.

    P.S That doesn't mean that the anime industry can't add things for girls that would be great, so as long as they don't change the cuteness LOL
    I don't think the problem is whether they appeal to males or not. There's plenty of shoujo stuff to please the girls. But for the males, isn't it incredibly lazy to just pump out cute girls instead of making interesting shows with good settings, plot, and characterization. The fact that anime continues to consistently about little girls makes it hard to ever expand outward to the general public like Disney has.

    Miyazaki makes movies that the entire family can enjoy while shows like Yuru Yuri would never, ever appeal to a grown audience.
    >streaming

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    Well Disney to me is for kids, i think anime is for adults more so then kids, and i know kids sneak and watch anime anyway without their parents seeing a anime girl with big breast. I'm sure if their parents saw that they would get in trouble LOL. But yeah your right they should make alittle more good quality plots and branch out alittle more, but they shouldn't stop making the cuteness LOL

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    I agree on the fact that it is a little lazy when they don't add more stuff like good plots and better characters, but I think I like the anime industry just the way it is. So to answer your original question, I wouldn't really want to change anything regarding the content that anime have in them, becuase there is enough anime with good stories and settings to keep me satisfied if I didn't want all the moe.

    Also, while branching out to new audiences may be good for business, I also think that it can sometimes hurt things too. Its a little off topic, but when I look at the game industry, I cannot help but feel sad when I see how many games are now being "simplified" and made less hardcore so that causal fans can play them. I'd hate to see something like that happen to anime.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiendZero View Post
    ...
    Also, while branching out to new audiences may be good for business, I also think that it can sometimes hurt things too. Its a little off topic, but when I look at the game industry, I cannot help but feel sad when I see how many games are now being "simplified" and made less hardcore so that causal fans can play them. I'd hate to see something like that happen to anime.
    Oh yeah that's a good point. Even though lots of animators in Japan today are being paid low wages right now, if anime became too mainstream it would just end up like Western cartoons wouldn't it? It sucks though that most people in the industry are so poor. If they had more money, like KyoAni, they might actually be more inclined to try new things rather than mass producing according to a guaranteed formula.

    Last edited by solidoxygen; 07-03-2012 at 06:26 PM.
    >streaming

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    LOL DiendZero you took the words right out of my mouth that's exactly how i feel about making games to nub friendly and easy for the common player. But lets just hope anime doesn't make mistakes like gaming did
    Last edited by Free; 07-03-2012 at 06:24 PM.

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    What would happen to anime if it became too successful?
    >streaming

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    It wouldn't be the same but that might be a good thing and it might be a bad thing. For starters if it became successful their would be longer anime shows, better plots and better art work and even maybe alot more dubed anime's to. Now on the other hand it could turn out to be like western cartoons and only be for the younger crowd, well we all seen western cartoons their so bad we don't want that to happen to anime!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fr3e1Up View Post
    It wouldn't be the same but that might be a good thing and it might be a bad thing. For starters if it became successful their would be longer anime shows, better plots and better art work and even maybe alot more dubed anime's to. Now on the other hand it could turn out to be like western cartoons and only be for the younger crowd, well we all seen western cartoons their so bad we don't want that to happen to anime!
    Better plot and younger audiences seems kind of contradictory, don't you think?

    >streaming

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    Not at all, like i said it could be good and it could be bad, but anyway anime want get mainstream no time soon so we don't have to worry about it right know

  12. #12
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    There are still good animes (anime originals) that don't "pander" otaku. As for "moe" animes, yeah they kinda degrade the meaning of otaku, but I think there must probably be a reason for why the concept of "moe" in anime's were introduced. I'm guessing the reasons are, (1)maybe because Japan's target viewers are mostly males, (2)from what you have said earlier it fuels the anime industry with lots of merchandise, (3)for some people, when they hear the word "otaku" they think of males who love anime right? (sometimes they tend to forget otaku girls, yeah XD)

    In my opinion, I would choose to see anime originals. I'm not saying that I'm against "moe" animes, but as what I've said, anime creators have a reason for making moe animes. I think otaku's have a freedom to enjoy whatever type of anime they like, because if anime's have mainstreamed, there will become a limit to people's expectations about anime. Anime is better off as it should be, I guess.

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    I guess it would be considered a cancer in terms of creativity and plot.

    If the moe doesn't detract from the plot or the anime as a whole, e.g. entire episodes that aim to please the fans, then I wouldn't mind it. Sadly, it happens quite often, often enough for animes to be labeled as a "moe anime". I'd prefer to see moe as a crutch that is used occasionally to boost sales, than to see moe as the whole story.

    To answer the question, I would rather see original stories that may or may not be good because: 1. They tried and 2. It's refreshing.

    ---------------------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by solidoxygen View Post
    ...isn't it incredibly lazy to just pump out cute girls instead of making interesting shows with good settings, plot, and characterization...
    You're right, it is lazy, lazy and profitable. Anime production companies cannot afford to be otherwise, which is why there is moe, moe everywhere.


    Although, that is pretty much common knowledge, so the following won't be anything new.

    Moe is an important element in the "guaranteed formula". An anime's success, in Japan at least, is heavily based on its Blu-ray and DVD sales. I've looked at Blu-ray sales rankings in Japan, and found that a majority of the top 20 sales are moe animes. It makes sense why there will always be a cute girl doing cute things in every anime season airing.

    Anime with good plot, settings, and characterization come out every once in a while, though. It is better than never haha.

    ---------------------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by solidoxygen View Post
    ...The fact that anime continues to consistently about little girls makes it hard to ever expand outward to the general public like Disney has.

    Miyazaki makes movies that the entire family can enjoy while shows like Yuru Yuri would never, ever appeal to a grown audience.
    In terms of appealing to the general public, moe (obviously) cannot provide that since it is already targeting a small niche (that is ready to fork over their money). Disney animations/cartoons appeal to the general audience because it targets the general audience.

    However, just because moe shows are prevalent doesn't mean all of anime are like moe shows. The same can be said about cartoons. Just because Disney targets a large audience doesn't mean all of cartoons are like Disney. Last time I checked, Bambi and Adventure Time, and K-ON! and Berserk are, in its entirety, different, and should not be compared.

    If we factor out moe shows and Disney from the equation, what's left? For cartoons, shows like Adventure Time, Spongebob, and comic book adaptations are rampant, while only a few diamonds in the rough like The Avatar are known. As for anime, if you take moe shows out of the equation *cough*andharemandecchiandmainstreamshows*cough*, you are left with Hayao Miyazaki films, and many shows that provoke thought and various emotions.

    Anyways, despite all the moe *cough*andharemandecchiandmainstreamshows*cough*, anime still seems more palatable than cartoons, and targets a wider audience.

    Besides, Disney is only able to expand outward to the general public because Disney has a huge presence, and a lot of power, backed by a lot of money. I haven't seen anything amazing from Disney in a long, long while. (Pixar doesn't count.)
    Last edited by Kimono; 07-06-2012 at 02:51 AM.

  14. #14
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    Ok you guys are all serious. First and foremost, their are "moe" anime that have been successful on its basis. As such, Hayate no Gotoku manga and Acchi Kocchi anime is the best example. Dont be confuse what I mean by successful on it. If you have seen it yourself, you could admit that romcom theme can use cuteness on the right amount without relying on just characters alone. As such both titles Ive mentioned did manage to attract attention of people who are looking for quality anime.

    The usage of cuteness on anime can be varies on how what kind of viewers you thought to target. Giving of example would be easy. Hayate no Gotoku like I mentioned earlier use the style of multiple arcs story while not confusing the audience but make them interested as well on what might happen next. For a simple story it has, it become interesting cause of its story telling about explaining at least 2 arcs at the same time. Ofc the characters itself are cute but those cute characters is only used at first to attract viewers.

    Second would be Acchi Kocchi like I mentioned as well. The anime of Acchi Kocchi seems to be covered with just cuteness with slice of life on it but the anime itself proves that it has a slow story and slow character development. In fact quite better on a certain romance title that is like by fandom which covers romance theme as well.

    Oh right I disagree with Disney anime movies are for kids. Heck Ive seen awesome titles from them that definitely target a whole family as an audience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solidoxygen View Post
    What would happen to anime if it became too successful?
    is there really such a thing as being to successful for anime?

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    They may be cancer, but I can't stop watching them. I may be a girl, but we like watching cute girls doing cute things too. Lucky Star, K-On, Ichigo Mashimaro, Hidamari Sketch, GA Geijutsuka Art Design Class, Minami-ke, Yotsubato!, Yuru Yuri, Nichijou, ACCHI FREAKING KOCCHI, Mitsudomoe (well, this, Minami-ke, Nichijou, Acchi Kocchi and Yotsubato have couple of males), Kill Me Baby, Hyakko... I COULD GO ON FOREVER.

    Of course, anime with plot always wins out. However, it's refreshing to see these kinds of anime too. As long as they aren't ONLY coming out with "moe" shows, then I'm perfectly content.

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    As long as overly cute and clumsy moe is 99.4% separated from bad ass anime I'm happy. Needless is the only over-the-top action show that I will accept having a little pink haired little girl with a teddy bear. But really... I don't think I've ever watched a show as many times as K-ON, I loved acchi kocchi and other cute ones... and Chuunibyou is right up there with Gintama for my favorite animes this season. I think moe is essential. It's so pointless and almost shouldn't exist but... what would happen if nothing was cute ever again

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    The industry has also been losing money steadily by catering to these ~males~ you speak of. Men always enjoy cutting-out 50% of the population and then rationalize why they must and eventually blame females for their own predictable male failures. Females do read manga (speaking of the Japanese market, the main/real one); creating anime for families and also targeting females would only be good business; but then social changes would have to take place first. There's been seminars held to a male audience trying to explain why male supremacy (and Japanese male supremacy specifically, has been slowly destroying the industry). Moe anime can be strangely touching and make a sad story more sad ( Meiko Menma - Ano Hana), but too often it is used for, shall we say, very creepy and disgusting purposes. Watching unbelievable anime with amazing stories obviously intended for adults (with no moe/loli) proves how great anime could be. Immature, pubescent-minded male trash producing assembly line moe/loli garbage right after they make their trashy game is the other part of the problem. Moe/loli is very cheap. Great anime costs a lot of money. I suppose only time will tell...

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    Hello everyone, say, for me, "Moe" shows depends on one's taste and how do they view it, if they enjoy it, how do they react to it, and how one is entertained by it, but, that's my own opinion...

    -reply

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    OS Regular Kaiosama's Avatar
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    Some Quotes from Bane13:

    Men always enjoy cutting-out 50% of the population and then rationalize why they must and eventually blame females for their own predictable male failures.
    What a bold statement. It's borderline sexist. Can you prove this?

    There's been seminars held to a male audience trying to explain why male supremacy (and Japanese male supremacy specifically, has been slowly destroying the industry).
    I'll admit Japan is sexist and it's wrong. I always wondered why they made schoolgirls wear those bloomer/buruma shorts. There's no reason and it's unfair on the girls.

    Females do read manga (speaking of the Japanese market, the main/real one); creating anime for families and also targeting females would only be good business.
    I see plenty of anime/manga for females. All that shojo romance stuff and yaoi. Although, there is an awful lot of ecchi anime, and I admit, I'm not keen on most modern animes, I like 90's the best.
    Last edited by Kaiosama; 04-25-2013 at 08:10 PM.

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