Does Art Change Anything?

[darkpoetry]

Lately OS has been lacking a good think tank discussion.

I was watching this video on the New York Times entitled The Last Word: Sidney Lumet.
I suggest watching it, currently on the front page of NYTimes.com about halfway down theres a small set of videos.

Edit: Heres the link: http://video.nytimes.com/video/2011/04/09/obituaries/1194838961597/the-last-word-sidney-lumet.html

I love watching The Last Word by NYT. They almost always ask the subject "How do you want to be remembered?" And this interview is far in the past and now the subject has passed away. It has some powerful moments.

Anyways back to the topic, famous movie director Sidney Lumet said something that really hit me. He said that he thinks (thought) Art doesn't change anything.

A real thought provoker.

Anime (besides the ones that are just trying to milk the cash) is a form of art.

I'm sure he realizes art changes cultures, even defines it.
However, he is probably referring to social change.

So the question: Does art change anything (social, political, even religious change)?

And if you believe it does, is it the art or the artist (the extraordinarily personality) that creates change?

[kimono031]

Art has served a major part in history and the developing of cultures. Art is universal. No matter where you are in the world, similar emotions and thoughts are stirred when viewing the same art.

Art has the ability to change culture. Art can take many forms such as paintings, statues, architecture, poetry, etc.. What do you think of when you try to imagine Europe (both historical and modern)? Do you think of the striking architecture of many buildings and churches? Do you think of statues and monuments? Do Troubadours pop into your head? These various art forms essentially define a particular location. (Of course, not all of Europe looks like this, but this is usually what the average folk would think of.)

Art also has the ability to change, if not influence, religion - namely Catholicism and Christianity. The architecture in churches, the various paintings and statues one finds containing the lord and or Jesus, has greatly influenced the belief of Christianity, which of course leads to a change in religion. (Yeah, very vague, but theres a lot to write about concerning religion :/)

Of course there are more examples of how art changes, but these are just some I thought of from the top of my head.

Concerning whether the art or the artist creates the change, I believe that they both have a part in the process. The artist, the instrument of change, creates the art which is then interpreted and creates the change.

---
Blah I might edit this later once I get my thoughts reorganized.

[darkpoetry]

Note: As the topic starter I all try avoid saying which I believe. I'll try just play the devil's advocate.

A good start to a topic with such a broad spectrum.
Its difficult to give specific examples that encompass the general idea.

However, I do see where you're running with the idea.
Don't want to go too far into religion, but I'm sure the majority agree that art plays a large part in religion. Whether it be the hymns, the glass stained windows, or dance.

Another way of thinking about the influence of art, is whether art was the cause or the resultant of change.
For example, did the lively hippie peace music of the 1970s USA create the hippie movement, or was it an expression of the change that was already taking place?

Likewise, did art change religion, or did art simply help maintain the atmosphere of the religion? A tool to pass down the tradition, rather than the defining aspect of the tradition.

[glaze]

Art is everything. I think Anime wouldn't be born if there is no art. Art comes from a person's idea, thoughts, imagination and perception in life. Art changes everything thus, making anything interesting, attractive and much prettier. I guess art simply adds color to the world :)

[Lovely]

Art is everything. I think Anime wouldn't be born if there is no art. Art comes from a person's idea, thoughts, imagination and perception in life. Art changes everything thus, making anything interesting, attractive and much prettier. I guess art simply adds color to the world :)

I like this answer~! I second this~! plus, Art gives color to ones life

[xveshx]

The first thought that came to mind was that yes Art can be a means to change. You made a good point about that it could be the person behind the art that truly has the influence. That is because I think Art is one of the few ways I believe people can truly express how they perceive the world. I'm always drawn to the idea of the question, "What does blue really look like to you?" What this really gets at is not only do people see the world around them differently based on experiences and the way they think but also just by being the unique person they are. You may look at a piece of interpretive art and see nothing but splashes of paint while others see a beautiful landscape.

This topic also brought to mind the propaganda pictures from varying eras. Without any sort of convincing or provocation you would look at these pieces of art and see another’s perception of how things are. Whether it is a depiction demonstrating strength or the weakness of others I think there can be a powerful impact on how someone thinks. Planting a seed of influence sometimes can be all it takes.

Anyways, those are the two things that popped into my head real quick. I’d like to think and expand on this more later. Thanks for bringing up such an interesting topic!

[darkpoetry]

Propaganda is a great point.
Without a doubt, propaganda and advertisements has paved the direction of countries.
Another overly debated question the topic of propaganda brings up is: What is Art?
Propaganda definitely changed history but does propaganda fall in the category of art?

You definitely bring up a good thought, though.
Any artwork can act like propaganda in the sense that it influences people.

[xveshx]

Propaganda just was my first reaction to this topic but the advertisement point like you mentioned it probably a little more relevant to modern times. Just think of all billboards or commercials you see that portray something in a positive or negative light.

I think the question of what is Art will always be debated apon. Painting, drawings, photography are all what I think of when you said Art. But I think that is too narrow of a view. What about music or poetry? You could argue the expressions themselves, no matter how they are manifested could be seen as Art. That expression can have an impact on someone even if it means they react negatively to it.

As a side note, I recently listened to a podcast where they were debating if video games could be considered art. There was never a consensus and I can see why. Many consider movies an art form and many triple-A titles do have a cinematic feel to them. What do you think?

[reneiru]

its the artist that creates the changes, not the art. because the art is the artist's himself.. XD or that what i think. :))

[Ragnarok]

Art is what motivates humans to create something, the best example is Leonardo Da Vinci... from the drawing board to solid form, did he change anyhing? he changed history.

[darkpoetry]

Art is what motivates humans to create something, the best example is Leonardo Da Vinci... from the drawing board to solid form, did he change anyhing? he changed history.

Its probably better to say that when human beings are motivated, they create art.
And in what way did he change history?

[Ragnarok]

he invented things did he not?

Edit: and I meant that through art we are motivated to do other things.

[coldground93]

I believe everything around us brings change. That also include Art. so yes, I believe it change something.

[mlcdl]

I believe everything around us brings change. That also include Art. so yes, I believe it change something.

Ive been gathering my ideas and so far I can only thought of the same,Art is anything around us that can affect people decision. Though with this definition, it feels like that Im pertaining to a lot of things so I still cant express my idea the way I want it.

[darkpoetry]

Lets just stick with the simple definition that most artists like to use; which is that Art is a form of self-expression.
Also inventions are different from art, though not mutually exclusive.
Inventions are more like implemented ideas rather than expression.
Also inventions serve a useful purpose. On the other hand, art doesn't need to, a.k.a. art for art's sake.
And since art doesn't need to serve a purpose, do they create change (specifically social, political, belief systems/morals, etc.)?

Not trying to put down anyone's input; just trying to keep the topic directed.

[Ragnarok]

Then think that art is absent... no art means no sculptures, no paintings, no music, no books etc etc.
Let's see... without art we probably wouldn't have religions because a symbol/icon or an idol is needed to believe in. (What purpose does religion serve?)
We would have to learn through experience since there wouldn't be any books to educate us.
The culture of each nation defines its people, so without it you can imagine how we would have evolved.
And let's not say what would happen without architecture... because designing is art.

It goes on and on and we are just playing with words; art doesn't need to change anything because if it's not there we are screwed.

[xveshx]

I'll play devils advocate a little bit here and argue that religion would exist. Regardless of Art it is the beliefs and teachings of religion that serves as the true propose. True the symbols can have a powerful visual significance but the ideas of what the religion stands for would remain.

Also architecture was developed more out of necessity to have shelter. Expanding on the ideas of what that entails could be seen as someone expressing themselves which many see as artistic expression. But the general idea of it doesn't directly go into the Art argument.

All that said I think we are getting somewhere. If only it was easier define something which can have so many means to so many people. Hmph.

[darkpoetry]

I also agree with xveshx in the sense that theres a difference between art and engineering (ask any engineer lol).

There are many many books which are not art.
Actually the books that caused most change in human history are mainly philosophical/theological/political, historical/religious, and scientific.

Maybe someone can give a good example of an artistic book (novel, screenplay, poem, etc) that created change.
Theres countless literature that changed cultural change, but have they affected social or political changed?

[B0b]

Usually, I would ask for a far more specific definition of art. However, as this is more of a focused thread, I'll just go broad.

Rather than thinking about art, think about what creates art. Most people consider it to be the imagination, which I'll just go with for simplicities sake.

Now, what's the other form of the mind besides imagination? Knowledge. When you consider whether imagination has meaning, consider a world without it. Thereby, only knowledge takes root. What would such a world look like? Imagine it *irony* yourself as it would take too long to write.

Now, is your image of a world with only knowledge different then the world now? If so, then art changes nothing for you. If not, then yes; art changes something.

[darkpoetry]

Usually, I would ask for a far more specific definition of art. However, as this is more of a focused thread, I'll just go broad.

Rather than thinking about art, think about what creates art. Most people consider it to be the imagination, which I'll just go with for simplicities sake.

Now, what's the other form of the mind besides imagination? Knowledge. When you consider whether imagination has meaning, consider a world without it. Thereby, only knowledge takes root. What would such a world look like? Imagine it *irony* yourself as it would take too long to write.

Now, is your image of a world with only knowledge different then the world now? If so, then art changes nothing for you. If not, then yes; art changes something.

...I'm sorry I could not follow the third and fourth paragraph.
Please expand on it. Doesn't matter how long it gets, as long as its understandable.
The objective of this thread is not to talk in riddles but rather to have a discussion.

The root of art is not exactly the topic. (We made the separation between the art and the artist.)
The human mind is much more complex and has many more parts then just imagination and knowledge.

The discussion focuses on whether art creates a change in the slightly larger scale (social, political, religious, etc, etc.) not whether it creates changes for an individual.

Again, just trying to keep this thread focused.

[trooper]

Its true you know,, art can change A person... But i don't agree with the "Anything" :)) it change me.. when i saw a Really Great Art.. Its a Woman in a War Bleeding to death.. And holding her Half Dead Son.. Makes me Cry!! :(

[evilwil]

Im sure art changes a lot of things....! it can even change your life!....it can become your hobby, or your JOB