A Song of Ice and Fire

[TheGentleman]

I've noticed that a few members on here are familiar with and enjoyed reading George R.R. Martin's incredible series of low-fantasy novels. Thus, I decided to start this thread in hopes of generating discussion of the plot, characters, settings, and everything else that this wonderful literary work has to offer.

I'll start by naming my favorite characters in the series. Jon Snow, Tyrion Lannister, Daenerys Targaryen, and Arya Stark. I will explore the reasons I feel drawn to these characters in future posts, after I (hopefully) snag a few other fellow ASOIAF readers/fans.

Cheers,

Alex

[tambulance]

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yes yes yes lol.

My favorite characters are of course John Snow, Tyrion Lannister, and Arya Stark. I also am fond of Eddard Stark, The Hound and Jamie Lannister. yes I said Jamie.... lol

[TheGentleman]

I too like The Hound, and Ned. I wasn't too fond of Jaime at the outset of the series, although by the third and fourth book, I felt as though his character had grown on me. He's a rather peculiar sort: arrogant, cold, laughing at things which should not be laughed at... yet also very loyal to his family. Jaime's love for Tyrion is one rather interesting facet of his character, given that most of his other family members hate the Halfman.

[tambulance]

exactly. Jamies love, loyalty, and even his honor reflects a character who is a lot deeper than appears to be at the start. And yes I said honor. Just think back to his escort and how they interact in the last books. I am trying not to use any names that aren't in the first 2 books for the sake of anyone who might be reading the series and hasn't gotten far.

I also like the water dancer lol

[TheGentleman]

Hah, yes, you mean Syrio? He was great. I'd love for George to explore the prequel story a little more. I'm really interested in Ser Arthur Dayne of Aery's Kingsguard; his character is mentioned several times, and Ned makes mark that he was "the strongest sword he'd ever known". And the possible interplay between Ned and the lady Ashara Dayne (The Sword of Morning's sister) is fascinating, as well.

[tambulance]

Yeah. There is more history than current affairs it seems lol. Not to mention the dreams.

[Keinan]

While he wasn't the first to do it, I really appreciate that Mr. Martin's world is composed of a billion shades of grey - ultimately, that makes it more colorful. The characters are not just contrived archetypes, they are well crafted personalities with realistic flaws and virtues. Good or Bad, there are motivations for all of their actions. The characters struggle with the realities of their world and position in it, and everything has consequences. There's no magical panacea whereby everyone is magically cured from all manner of wound or ill, and death is often times permanent. There isn't much in the books that requires me to tap too much into my suspension of disbelief, and that's amazing for a fantasy series.

I love how he's covered so very much through the novels that he's released, but you get the feeling that he's only scratched the surface of the things moving in his world. It makes me very excited, although it is upsetting that it takes so long for each book to come out.

I am looking forward to see how HBO handles the television series, and happy to see that George gets fair amount of input into it. The fact that it is on cable instead of syndicated combined with HBO's track record give me hope. I doubt it could reach the level of abomination that ABC Disney and Sam Raimi allowed Legend of the Seeker to be (the adaptation of Terry Goodkind's The Sword of Truth series).

I don't think I could really pick a favorite character from ASOIAF... I'm really interested in finding out more about Jaquen, and I love all of the various cultures outside of The Seven Kingdoms.

[TheGentleman]

Thanks for joining in, Keinan!

The face-dancer is indeed an intriguing character. His bond with Arya is something that connects them inextricably. I really appreciate the direction Martin has taken Arya's character; she's gone from being a lord's daughter to something far more interesting. Her story is easily one of my favorites, just for all of the serpentine twists it takes.

Martin does so love to shake up his character's, doesn't he? Just when it seems that one of them has finally managed to reach a rather comfortable spot (IE, Tyrion), they are completely dumped from whatever position they may hold, down to the bottom, to fight and claw and scratch their way from danger. That they are all faced with such plights gives the characters an amazing amount on humanity.

[tambulance]

Yeah me and my friends have talked countless hours about the possibilities the book has left us. There seems to an overwhelming feeling that there is an entire other story either buried beneath the current one or that the entire series could change course with just one or 2 chapters. I love the fact that everything is so on edge and still covered by a shadowy past that anything seems possible. I still say the dreams hold way more sway to the entire series than anyone besides Martin can even dare to guess at.

After talking to TheGentleman about certain theories I have I decided to post them.

Eddard Stark Eddard Stark isn't dead. Arya says that doesn't look like my dad. The spider who is behind everything that goes on in the red keep says he "serves the realm". The spider himself mentions that the cells beneath the redkeep are so vast and dark that one could be lost down there forever.

John Snow John Snow isn't Eddard Starks son. He in fact could be the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. Also the dream that Eddard has where lyanna asks "promise me ned" Does that not sound like a mother asking her brother to take care of her son and protect a very valuable or deadly secret in the process. It would also explain why John is treated much better than bastards are in this sorta time period. And yet again it would explain why Ned never talks about johns mom and how he met her and where.... because he never did.


Jaqen H'ghar He is indeed Syrio Forel the first sword of braavos. Syrios main focus while training arya was to see beyond what is infront of you. To see and not just watch. How appearance is a tricky thing. Also Jaqen is known as the faceless man. Can and has changed his appearance at will. Both were willing to help arya without any reserve. Both are Braavosi. And in a book where George R R Martin has no problem describing in full detail about the death of any character... we never even got a glimpse that syrio died.

The 3 Dragons Based on the prophecy of the 3 dragons. Being that Daenerys Targaryen is one of the dragons. And based on the theory above that John could be a sibling and possibly the 2nd dragon. Who could be the third dragon? If anyone has a thought please post or pm me

[TheGentleman]

Thanks for posting this up here, Tambulance. I hope we're able to generate some more ideas and discussion based around these theories. I'll ponder the third dragon, and send you what I come up with.

[Keinan]

Those are some really interesting theories Tambulance.

Do you think that possibly whatever the creepy Melisandre is doing for Stannis could produce an additional dragon? Or that possibly one of the Targaryen's escaped up North, and has a hand in what's coming...maybe something happened to one of the "killed" Targaryens that was similar to what happened to Catelyn Stark and Berric Dondarrion?

[TheGentleman]

Interesting theory, Keinan. I'd not considered it.

As to Melisandre birthing a dragon... I suppose it is possible, but unlikely. It doesn't seem to be the path Martin would take, although having said that... he has a wonderful ability to dump all my expectations right on their heads. I suppose that one of the Targaryens could have been reborn, via the same method as Beric and Catelyn. Perhaps Viserys was reborn through whatever it was Mirri Maz Duur did to Drogo in the tent? As a sort of... hmm, by-product. Or maybe... Maester Aemon fathered a bastard who has yet to be revealed?

[tambulance]

Very interesting indeed.

Third dragon
I have personally been feeling that maybe someone from Dorne could be the third dragon. That house holds a lot of power and plays a key role in the entire series but has only been introduced in the last book for the most part. The key indicators for a third dragon seem to be either A:being a bastard B: their birth being unknown or at least mysterious. Also anyone who we havent heart much of their past or parents. C: Anyone being treated above or beyond what their status permits. I just had a thought about roberts bastard son the blacksmith with the helmet. Maybe he could be the third dragon. I dont remember much about his mother... only that his father was robert. I will be looking into him tonight lol

Another theory for you guys. Something I have been chewing on for awhile.


Third dragon Tyrion is the third dragon. reason I think that..... Besides him being cool lol. His father Tywin says that Tyrion killed his mother at birth. What Tywin doesn't say is that Tyrion killed his wife. What if Tywin got a prostitute pregnant and Tyrion killed her during childbirth. We know Tywin spoke badly of Tyrions obsession with whores. But could that be because he loved one that died during brith to Tyrion. We also remember finding Tywin in bed with Tyrions whore Shae. Or what if in some political scheme by Tywin he let one of the Targaryen's have his way with his wife? This last assumption has no real lead to it. Just a possibility I thought of. The whole theory about Tyrion not being full blood Lannister holds a bit of weight behind it if you look at the way Tywin words things and he treats him.